You are right I do. But that's not the question posed in the post I quoted.Guest wrote:No but you do count on your employer to make the working environment a safe environment to work inOzzie wrote:I have to say I don't count on my employer or workplace to make me a better person. I think that's a somewhat odd question. Especially lumping the two together
Australian Womens Football
I know we take cultural surveys at my work, but I would never count on my responses determining my bosses job. Especially if the gals didn't know what the results were going to be used for, a lot could have just filled in the bubbles. See it happen all the time on those 1 to 5 statisfaction scales, which is what it sounds like they used.
I also kind of disagree with people saying that your workplace shouldn't be stressful. Now I would never condone bullying or abuse, but in a national team setting, there is a certain element of "I have to compete for my job" that is unique to high performance sports teams. I mean you're competing with every other female Australian soccer player for a spot on a roster of 23 give or take. It's going to be stressful and you have to earn your place. Even the most senior players recognize they could lose their spot at any time if they stop performing. So that begs the question "What is unacceptable levels of stress" in this kind of unique enviroment? And if kids shouldn't be subjected to that, "Should we be calling up those under 18 to the National team?"
I also kind of disagree with people saying that your workplace shouldn't be stressful. Now I would never condone bullying or abuse, but in a national team setting, there is a certain element of "I have to compete for my job" that is unique to high performance sports teams. I mean you're competing with every other female Australian soccer player for a spot on a roster of 23 give or take. It's going to be stressful and you have to earn your place. Even the most senior players recognize they could lose their spot at any time if they stop performing. So that begs the question "What is unacceptable levels of stress" in this kind of unique enviroment? And if kids shouldn't be subjected to that, "Should we be calling up those under 18 to the National team?"
I dont know if its the coaches fault, but from what we see on SM its pretty likely there are pretty strong clicks that can be excluding to girls outside of them, not to mention complication of dating history/fallouts which we probably only guessed some of. That kind of culture was what the US team went through too in late 90s and early 00's and we know what drama that caused
And here I was hoping women football is drama free and focused on football, its pretty disappointing
And here I was hoping women football is drama free and focused on football, its pretty disappointing
"Months before that, an FFA board member warned Stajcic that powerful forces within the game wanted him sacked and replaced with a female coach. ''They're out to get you,'' he was told."
Of course all these dudebros from Sokkah Twitter and their mates are trying to turn it into some conspiracy by saying the new evil women on the FFA board wanted a female coach - something that looks to be based on hearsay and paranoia
IF there's any morsel of truth to this they wouldn't be doing it 5 MONTHS before the World Cup, a time when it's going to draw a lot of attention and drama.
Reading all the articles that have come out the woodwork so far it seems it was more just stressful work environment.Guest wrote:I know we take cultural surveys at my work, but I would never count on my responses determining my bosses job. Especially if the gals didn't know what the results were going to be used for, a lot could have just filled in the bubbles. See it happen all the time on those 1 to 5 statisfaction scales, which is what it sounds like they used.
I also kind of disagree with people saying that your workplace shouldn't be stressful. Now I would never condone bullying or abuse, but in a national team setting, there is a certain element of "I have to compete for my job" that is unique to high performance sports teams. I mean you're competing with every other female Australian soccer player for a spot on a roster of 23 give or take. It's going to be stressful and you have to earn your place. Even the most senior players recognize they could lose their spot at any time if they stop performing. So that begs the question "What is unacceptable levels of stress" in this kind of unique enviroment? And if kids shouldn't be subjected to that, "Should we be calling up those under 18 to the National team?"
There was bullying, and not feeling safe,
Also it was not only the surveys that caused Staij sacking it was maybe the trigger for already other things that weren't going such performance which was declining.
I think everything together cause the situation to be untenable
Did FFA handle the situation well?
No it was a cluster fuck
I hate to say that I've gotten a bit of a divided vibe on the team lately. Not necessarily regarding Kyah and Alanna's break-up, but we used to see them do a lot more 'team building exercises' in their off time. I don't know if they stopped doing those anymore or if they just stopped posting about them on social media or what.guestyri wrote:"They talk of a divided team environment, riddled with cliques, made even more complex by the fact that some players have been in relationships with each other"... isnt kyah/alanna (love triangle with ellie), potentially sam/caitlin but thats years ago the only in-house relationships?
You'll never get a group of 23 individuals to all be BFFs though. So long as they can be professional and work together that's what matter most. Maybe that was something Stajcic failed to facilitate?
You also have to wonder if having a few individuals on the team see extreme success in certain areas could cause a divide? It's a very new situation for the team to be in since ToN 2017 and maybe hasn't been handled as well as it could've been. For example in terms of some players getting bigger sponsorships/brand deals, Kerr being the lone player to get marquee status/big $$$, and a certain few players being given a higher media status in general. I have little doubt that can cause resentment amongst the players not receiving the first class treatment.
You've also got the fact there are players who are clear starters on the team, and are known by everyone to be a necessity to on-the-field success, while others are lagging behind, dropping off, or having other issues keeping them on the bench. Sure you can say 'rah rah everyone contributes etc.' but I get the feeling there are some players struggling to keep up with the ever-growing standard of the team and possibly in denial about it.
Those are just a few of the things I've been thinking about since I read the 'divided team' thing last night. There are so many things as of late that could be cause, I doubt a break-up between a couple that has been together and breaking up since forever is anywhere near the biggest divisive issue in camp right now.
X2 to all of this.
Also that article, to me anyway, seemed to be looking to create drama. It came if as conspiracy like instead of trying to ask legitimate questions or present facts.
Almost every woso team I can think of has couples in it and it's understood by most journalists that that is off limits to media talk and articles. I find it unprofessional that it was mentioned in the article and as you stated, doubt that either Kyah/Alanna or Foord/ Kerr dynamics contributed to any sort of divide among the group. If anything it seemed more like issues you mentioned such as different status/coverage and fringe or "on the bubble" players on the team.
Also that article, to me anyway, seemed to be looking to create drama. It came if as conspiracy like instead of trying to ask legitimate questions or present facts.
Almost every woso team I can think of has couples in it and it's understood by most journalists that that is off limits to media talk and articles. I find it unprofessional that it was mentioned in the article and as you stated, doubt that either Kyah/Alanna or Foord/ Kerr dynamics contributed to any sort of divide among the group. If anything it seemed more like issues you mentioned such as different status/coverage and fringe or "on the bubble" players on the team.
i know you're having a lot of issues with this ozzie, as seen by your questioning posts. but siding with these male journos who've jumped on this story despite giving zero fucks about women's football in australia until a few days ago isn't a great look. i trust those who have been reporting woso in australia for a longtime and actually have connections to the players unlike the stories coming from certain journos in the last few days. and they are all firmly on the side of this was handled very poorly but it was the right thing.Ozzie wrote:But this is what happens if you don't give reasons. People seek to fill the vacuum.
you can question what has happened without excusing this unprofessional approach which has potential to cause even more harm to the players all for a few extra clicks and tin hatting stories. they can "fill the vacuum" without potentially outing players or drawing the ire of homophobes and uppity men only familiar with the dynamics of men's football who will look down upon two women dating or having dated within the team setting. that was a completely irresponsible inclusion in the article.
another poster already listed more potential reasons for division that seem just as obvious, especially given that those reasons fit the timeframe better - tournament of nations 2017 when the spotlight was put on the team was approx. 18 months ago which is when the reports say the deterioration in team culture started.
I take your point and to clarify, I'm not siding with him about what he printed. I'm just saying that the actions of the FFA in not being transparent have the consequence that people start to speculate. Thats not an unexpected development. This means that people will start printing every rumour that they hear. This has the potential not just to damage Stajcic and the coaching staff whose sacking may well be justified. It's now potentially damaging to players and individual members of the FFA board who may have done nothing wrong. It's completely an unsustainable situation. The way this whole thing has been handled is absurd.
And I do find it interesting that Webster included that in the article especially as he is openly gay.
And I do find it interesting that Webster included that in the article especially as he is openly gay.
Men are gonna men even if they're gay men. Gay men can be incredibly lesbophobic, even casually so. If it was about two guys on a team being in a relationship together causing division I bet he wouldn't have even considered including it. Men will always look out for their own at all costs, in this case Staj, even to the detriment of their 'fellow' gays. Also if he was actually a regular reporter of women's football he would be aware it's a bit of a no-no to mention it, but he's not so...Ozzie wrote:I take your point and to clarify, I'm not siding with him about what he printed. I'm just saying that the actions of the FFA in not being transparent have the consequence that people start to speculate. Thats not an unexpected development. This means that people will start printing every rumour that they hear. This has the potential not just to damage Stajcic and the coaching staff whose sacking may well be justified. It's now potentially damaging to players and individual members of the FFA board who may have done nothing wrong. It's completely an unsustainable situation. The way this whole thing has been handled is absurd.
And I do find it interesting that Webster included that in the article especially as he is openly gay.
One thing I find really unacceptable about the whole way it was handled was the players finding out the day it happened. The secret firing and presser to announce he was fired legit had me thinking Staj himself sexually harrassed someone or worse. Even if every allegation presented so far is true, none of that in my book justifies how the FFA has tarnished Stajs reputation and more importantly how it justifies causing the whole team such an emotional and unfair way to find out.
Everything could have been a lot more composed had the team been informed beforehand. It's a bad look that the FFA is saying players felt bullied and harassed but then have all the senior players come out shocked, saddened and even upset that Staj was gone. Probably made the divide way worse than anything beforehand and made those players who felt bullied feel even more isolated. Imo the FFA needs to at least answer up to that.
Everything could have been a lot more composed had the team been informed beforehand. It's a bad look that the FFA is saying players felt bullied and harassed but then have all the senior players come out shocked, saddened and even upset that Staj was gone. Probably made the divide way worse than anything beforehand and made those players who felt bullied feel even more isolated. Imo the FFA needs to at least answer up to that.
Didn't Macca and Foord date? I mean, cliques are pretty common across any national team. The question is always if they go so far as to affect on-field performance. I honestly wouldn't have guessed this was an issue for the Matildas.guestyri wrote:"They talk of a divided team environment, riddled with cliques, made even more complex by the fact that some players have been in relationships with each other"... isnt kyah/alanna (love triangle with ellie), potentially sam/caitlin but thats years ago the only in-house relationships?
Agreed- it was handled so poorly its hard not to think there are other things going on behind the scenes. And the post-facto trickling of information justifying their decision makes it seem like they are now trying to cover their ass. I'm still not sure if anything I have seen justifies firing a head coach less than 6 months to the World Cup.Guest wrote:One thing I find really unacceptable about the whole way it was handled was the players finding out the day it happened. The secret firing and presser to announce he was fired legit had me thinking Staj himself sexually harrassed someone or worse. Even if every allegation presented so far is true, none of that in my book justifies how the FFA has tarnished Stajs reputation and more importantly how it justifies causing the whole team such an emotional and unfair way to find out.
Everything could have been a lot more composed had the team been informed beforehand. It's a bad look that the FFA is saying players felt bullied and harassed but then have all the senior players come out shocked, saddened and even upset that Staj was gone. Probably made the divide way worse than anything beforehand and made those players who felt bullied feel even more isolated. Imo the FFA needs to at least answer up to that.
Also, it seem a bit odd that the surveys were apparently at the request of the P.A. And yet the FFA brings in Our Watch, which focuses on cultural behavior which underpins violence against women. Their focuses seemed outside of the issues that were requested to be addressed. Stuff just doesn't add up.
No that was just a theory pushed by hopeful Instagram stans as far as I can tell.J.E. wrote:Didn't Macca and Foord date? I mean, cliques are pretty common across any national team. The question is always if they go so far as to affect on-field performance. I honestly wouldn't have guessed this was an issue for the Matildas.guestyri wrote:"They talk of a divided team environment, riddled with cliques, made even more complex by the fact that some players have been in relationships with each other"... isnt kyah/alanna (love triangle with ellie), potentially sam/caitlin but thats years ago the only in-house relationships?
Foord was still dating Kerr when Macca got with her ex AFLW gf, and there was no signs of them dating in between Macca's break up with her and getting with Pickett (although there were other rumours about Macca's dating life from that time that could've caused some minor drama in the squad).
There's obviously always been cliques and there always will be cliques. And some of those cliques have very longstanding friendships, some going back till they were kids. They aren't cliques being formed out of hierarchy within the team or with any malice behind them. It's not like we've seen or heard them fighting with each other on the pitch (like LDV with Sydney recently). The problems on the pitch have been what articles such as this pointed out e.g. one dimensional play and tactics. People here have also been pointing out some issues with Staj's tactics and personnel choices for a while now (since the friendlies in Europe iirc) - like his refusal to call up natural defenders when the team is sparse on those and converting middling attacking players instead.
This article is long but has so much. What an utter fucking shitshow. Shame on the FFA.
Some highlights:-
- A PFA survey went out to 32 Matildas in camp in November and identified concerns over workloads with one mention of skin folds testing and the routine weighing in and out of players at training, which was considered body-shaming.
- "There was nothing in that report that would have led to the subsequent sacking of the coach," said one who has seen the survey findings.
- The survey was sent out and 142 responses received. However only three of them are said to have been from Matildas, and one from a Socceroo. At least one Matilda doesn't even remember ever seeing it. The three anonymous responses from the Matildas were apparently similar and used the trigger words like "toxic", "misogynistic" and "bullying" which were later cited by the FFA. There was also an incident cited where a coaching staff member apparently used a derogatory homophobic term when discussing sleeping arrangements in camp.
Under the two previous camps, couples within the Matildas were allowed to room together but Stajcic reportedly separated them.
- At the Matildas workshop at Coogee's Crown Plaza Hotel on Monday, players were reportedly in tears when they confronted Gallop. Some of the players were said to be incensed that comments they had made in confidence had been used to justify sacking the coach instead of simply addressing the issue. While a clearly shaken Gallop insisted to the press that afternoon that he had not been asked for Stajcic to be reinstated, there are claims that some players at least did ask him for exactly that.
- None of the allegations we at FTBL and The Women's Game have been told about Staj and his staff's behaviour appear to be beyond solving by adult discussion and at worse counselling, or ultimately, official warnings. As far as we can ascertain, there were no specific complaints against Stajcic himself personally. His greatest failing, if any, was his reaction to the OurWatch survey results, it seems.
https://www.ftbl.com.au/analysis/there-was-...er-518325/page0
Some highlights:-
- A PFA survey went out to 32 Matildas in camp in November and identified concerns over workloads with one mention of skin folds testing and the routine weighing in and out of players at training, which was considered body-shaming.
- "There was nothing in that report that would have led to the subsequent sacking of the coach," said one who has seen the survey findings.
- The survey was sent out and 142 responses received. However only three of them are said to have been from Matildas, and one from a Socceroo. At least one Matilda doesn't even remember ever seeing it. The three anonymous responses from the Matildas were apparently similar and used the trigger words like "toxic", "misogynistic" and "bullying" which were later cited by the FFA. There was also an incident cited where a coaching staff member apparently used a derogatory homophobic term when discussing sleeping arrangements in camp.
Under the two previous camps, couples within the Matildas were allowed to room together but Stajcic reportedly separated them.
- At the Matildas workshop at Coogee's Crown Plaza Hotel on Monday, players were reportedly in tears when they confronted Gallop. Some of the players were said to be incensed that comments they had made in confidence had been used to justify sacking the coach instead of simply addressing the issue. While a clearly shaken Gallop insisted to the press that afternoon that he had not been asked for Stajcic to be reinstated, there are claims that some players at least did ask him for exactly that.
- None of the allegations we at FTBL and The Women's Game have been told about Staj and his staff's behaviour appear to be beyond solving by adult discussion and at worse counselling, or ultimately, official warnings. As far as we can ascertain, there were no specific complaints against Stajcic himself personally. His greatest failing, if any, was his reaction to the OurWatch survey results, it seems.
https://www.ftbl.com.au/analysis/there-was-...er-518325/page0
Also, the fact that sleeping arrangements were even brought up to the press or the press going there should be off base. A shame they can't respect the players privacy. There's an unwritten rule. You just don't do that.
On a side note, the no bunking with your significant other is a rule I believe in in team sports. The rule is there for a reason.
On a side note, the no bunking with your significant other is a rule I believe in in team sports. The rule is there for a reason.
With every new bit of information leaking out it's becoming more and more clear they jumped the gun with firing him. At most an official warning and counselling, especially to the staff member caught using a homophobic remark against players. Plus the fact they initially misconstrued that the OurWatch survey was a main factor in all of this, when in reality only 3 players responded!!! Then the backtracking in the press con to say it wasn't just the survey results taken into account while at the same time insisting they can't say what the reasons are due to confidentiality. If they weren't happy with his tactics or whatever other reason why must that remain confidential? Nothing from the FFA side adds up.
Also if Gallop allegedly lying to the press when asked if any players asked for him to reinstate Staj isn't shady af idk what is...
I feel so bad for the players, especially the ones whose words were used against them in a moment of bravery and trust when they spoke up about the problems in the camp.
Also if Gallop allegedly lying to the press when asked if any players asked for him to reinstate Staj isn't shady af idk what is...
I feel so bad for the players, especially the ones whose words were used against them in a moment of bravery and trust when they spoke up about the problems in the camp.
That's a typo. The article says "two previous coaches" not camps.Guest wrote:"Under the two previous camps, couples within the Matildas were allowed to room together but Stajcic reportedly separated them."
As far as I know there were no couples in the team during the last 2 camps. Kyah and Alanna broke up a year ago so who could they mean?
Ok this makes more sense but still Kyah and Alanna roomed togehter when Stajicic was coach but they stopped rooming togehter I think a couple of camps before they broke up.Guest wrote:That's a typo. The article says "two previous coaches" not camps.Guest wrote:"Under the two previous camps, couples within the Matildas were allowed to room together but Stajcic reportedly separated them."
As far as I know there were no couples in the team during the last 2 camps. Kyah and Alanna broke up a year ago so who could they mean?
Really, none of the FFA's responses add up. In one of the earlier articles where the FFA director Heather Reid said she didn't want him out because he was a male, she also said this:Guest wrote:With every new bit of information leaking out it's becoming more and more clear they jumped the gun with firing him. At most an official warning and counselling, especially to the staff member caught using a homophobic remark against players. Plus the fact they initially misconstrued that the OurWatch survey was a main factor in all of this, when in reality only 3 players responded!!! Then the backtracking in the press con to say it wasn't just the survey results taken into account while at the same time insisting they can't say what the reasons are due to confidentiality. If they weren't happy with his tactics or whatever other reason why must that remain confidential? Nothing from the FFA side adds up.
Also if Gallop allegedly lying to the press when asked if any players asked for him to reinstate Staj isn't shady af idk what is...
I feel so bad for the players, especially the ones whose words were used against them in a moment of bravery and trust when they spoke up about the problems in the camp.
"It's a pity that there aren't more parents and players prepared to speak up about some of his behaviour," Reid said. "If people knew the actual facts, they would be shocked. I can refer you to some people who were involved with the Green and Gold Army who were in Jordan for the Asian Cup and talked to parents and heard their concerns about the welfare of their daughters. And talk to players about their situation in the team."
Which doesn't at all line-up with the whole player's survey narrative being told and their statement that Stajic himself didn't do anything wrong. If she knew of actual misconduct then investigate it, and handle it properly. Its hard to believe them when they
(Also, Reid removed herself from the selection process due to the rumors, but said she wouldn't remove herself from voting on the new coach when the time came.)
If this opinion wasn't being pushed by a bunch of raging misogynists screaming till they're blue in the face about a 'fEmInIsT aGeNdA", and sounding a bit off their rockers in general, I feel like more people would be willing to listen. Because I agree, it's a possibility at this point given some of the things I've seen dug up over the last couple of days.Guest wrote:Maybe someone did want Staj out and has been gunning for him. Makes more sense then the other excuses they're throwing out.
And going by the twitter of the assistant coach who resigned in support of Staj he feels the same way too.
Even if it was true they're never going to admit it and everyone knows that.Guest wrote:When does this shit storm end
https://twitter.com/theworldgame/status/108...2584404992?s=21
What they need to do to convince people is be transparent. It's clear things are going to keep leaking day after day. At this point if the FFA has nothing to hide then they need to come out with exact reasons. But they've balls it up so much even that might not be enough to satisfy the people trying to pin it on them right now. The whole thing has become so toxic in a matter of days.
I have no clue what to think anymore. I had faith that the players welfare was the #1 priority, but that sentiment has been lessening everyday. It's just a whole fucking mess.
If they had so much concern for the player's welfare you think they would have at least had the decency to inform the players before it was public knowledge...Guest wrote:Even if it was true they're never going to admit it and everyone knows that.Guest wrote:When does this shit storm end
https://twitter.com/theworldgame/status/108...2584404992?s=21
What they need to do to convince people is be transparent. It's clear things are going to keep leaking day after day. At this point if the FFA has nothing to hide then they need to come out with exact reasons. But they've balls it up so much even that might not be enough to satisfy the people trying to pin it on them right now. The whole thing has become so toxic in a matter of days.
I have no clue what to think anymore. I had faith that the players welfare was the #1 priority, but that sentiment has been lessening everyday. It's just a whole fucking mess.
Yeah I agree, not a good look at all the way they've handled the players.J.E. wrote:If they had so much concern for the player's welfare you think they would have at least had the decency to inform the players before it was public knowledge...Guest wrote:Even if it was true they're never going to admit it and everyone knows that.Guest wrote:When does this shit storm end
https://twitter.com/theworldgame/status/108...2584404992?s=21
What they need to do to convince people is be transparent. It's clear things are going to keep leaking day after day. At this point if the FFA has nothing to hide then they need to come out with exact reasons. But they've balls it up so much even that might not be enough to satisfy the people trying to pin it on them right now. The whole thing has become so toxic in a matter of days.
I have no clue what to think anymore. I had faith that the players welfare was the #1 priority, but that sentiment has been lessening everyday. It's just a whole fucking mess.
Laura Alleway did a podcast and admitted it wasn't the best way to get the news and says they're still pretty in the dark about it all even after speaking with Gallop. She did say they trust the FFA but I'd bet privately a few are having reservations, especially if they're dependent on reading the same information as the rest of us.
Link to the podcast if anyone wants to listen: https://twitter.com/DFS_AUS/status/1087938728142737408
Staj talk starts about 11 mins in.
and then you get this article which directly calls out reid's accusations about parental concern at the asian cup. https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/swoop/...bac223473ce0425J.E. wrote:Really, none of the FFA's responses add up. In one of the earlier articles where the FFA director Heather Reid said she didn't want him out because he was a male, she also said this:Guest wrote:With every new bit of information leaking out it's becoming more and more clear they jumped the gun with firing him. At most an official warning and counselling, especially to the staff member caught using a homophobic remark against players. Plus the fact they initially misconstrued that the OurWatch survey was a main factor in all of this, when in reality only 3 players responded!!! Then the backtracking in the press con to say it wasn't just the survey results taken into account while at the same time insisting they can't say what the reasons are due to confidentiality. If they weren't happy with his tactics or whatever other reason why must that remain confidential? Nothing from the FFA side adds up.
Also if Gallop allegedly lying to the press when asked if any players asked for him to reinstate Staj isn't shady af idk what is...
I feel so bad for the players, especially the ones whose words were used against them in a moment of bravery and trust when they spoke up about the problems in the camp.
"It's a pity that there aren't more parents and players prepared to speak up about some of his behaviour," Reid said. "If people knew the actual facts, they would be shocked. I can refer you to some people who were involved with the Green and Gold Army who were in Jordan for the Asian Cup and talked to parents and heard their concerns about the welfare of their daughters. And talk to players about their situation in the team."
Which doesn't at all line-up with the whole player's survey narrative being told and their statement that Stajic himself didn't do anything wrong. If she knew of actual misconduct then investigate it, and handle it properly. Its hard to believe them when they
(Also, Reid removed herself from the selection process due to the rumors, but said she wouldn't remove herself from voting on the new coach when the time came.)
"I also spoke to many parents of the players, had dinner with some, shared a drink with others and coffee too.
Stajcic's demeanour was never attacked by these level-headed parents.
Sure I heard conversations about why their daughters should be playing ahead of player X or his tactics but nothing more, it was typical game talk ?ó?Ç?ö a difference of opinion and nothing else."
We will never know.Guest wrote:and then you get this article which directly calls out reid's accusations about parental concern at the asian cup. https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/swoop/...bac223473ce0425J.E. wrote:Really, none of the FFA's responses add up. In one of the earlier articles where the FFA director Heather Reid said she didn't want him out because he was a male, she also said this:Guest wrote:With every new bit of information leaking out it's becoming more and more clear they jumped the gun with firing him. At most an official warning and counselling, especially to the staff member caught using a homophobic remark against players. Plus the fact they initially misconstrued that the OurWatch survey was a main factor in all of this, when in reality only 3 players responded!!! Then the backtracking in the press con to say it wasn't just the survey results taken into account while at the same time insisting they can't say what the reasons are due to confidentiality. If they weren't happy with his tactics or whatever other reason why must that remain confidential? Nothing from the FFA side adds up.
Also if Gallop allegedly lying to the press when asked if any players asked for him to reinstate Staj isn't shady af idk what is...
I feel so bad for the players, especially the ones whose words were used against them in a moment of bravery and trust when they spoke up about the problems in the camp.
"It's a pity that there aren't more parents and players prepared to speak up about some of his behaviour," Reid said. "If people knew the actual facts, they would be shocked. I can refer you to some people who were involved with the Green and Gold Army who were in Jordan for the Asian Cup and talked to parents and heard their concerns about the welfare of their daughters. And talk to players about their situation in the team."
Which doesn't at all line-up with the whole player's survey narrative being told and their statement that Stajic himself didn't do anything wrong. If she knew of actual misconduct then investigate it, and handle it properly. Its hard to believe them when they
(Also, Reid removed herself from the selection process due to the rumors, but said she wouldn't remove herself from voting on the new coach when the time came.)
"I also spoke to many parents of the players, had dinner with some, shared a drink with others and coffee too.
Stajcic's demeanour was never attacked by these level-headed parents.
Sure I heard conversations about why their daughters should be playing ahead of player X or his tactics but nothing more, it was typical game talk ?ó?Ç?ö a difference of opinion and nothing else."
"There are three sides to every story: your side, my side, and the truth. And no one is lying. Memories shared serve each differently. Robert Evans."
Can you share more from the article please-its behind a paywall for me. Who said that quote?Guest wrote:and then you get this article which directly calls out reid's accusations about parental concern at the asian cup. https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/swoop/...bac223473ce0425J.E. wrote:Really, none of the FFA's responses add up. In one of the earlier articles where the FFA director Heather Reid said she didn't want him out because he was a male, she also said this:Guest wrote:With every new bit of information leaking out it's becoming more and more clear they jumped the gun with firing him. At most an official warning and counselling, especially to the staff member caught using a homophobic remark against players. Plus the fact they initially misconstrued that the OurWatch survey was a main factor in all of this, when in reality only 3 players responded!!! Then the backtracking in the press con to say it wasn't just the survey results taken into account while at the same time insisting they can't say what the reasons are due to confidentiality. If they weren't happy with his tactics or whatever other reason why must that remain confidential? Nothing from the FFA side adds up.
Also if Gallop allegedly lying to the press when asked if any players asked for him to reinstate Staj isn't shady af idk what is...
I feel so bad for the players, especially the ones whose words were used against them in a moment of bravery and trust when they spoke up about the problems in the camp.
"It's a pity that there aren't more parents and players prepared to speak up about some of his behaviour," Reid said. "If people knew the actual facts, they would be shocked. I can refer you to some people who were involved with the Green and Gold Army who were in Jordan for the Asian Cup and talked to parents and heard their concerns about the welfare of their daughters. And talk to players about their situation in the team."
Which doesn't at all line-up with the whole player's survey narrative being told and their statement that Stajic himself didn't do anything wrong. If she knew of actual misconduct then investigate it, and handle it properly. Its hard to believe them when they
(Also, Reid removed herself from the selection process due to the rumors, but said she wouldn't remove herself from voting on the new coach when the time came.)
"I also spoke to many parents of the players, had dinner with some, shared a drink with others and coffee too.
Stajcic's demeanour was never attacked by these level-headed parents.
Sure I heard conversations about why their daughters should be playing ahead of player X or his tactics but nothing more, it was typical game talk ?ó?Ç?ö a difference of opinion and nothing else."
I mean...not always. As to the full details of the culture of the matildas, sure, but not this specific issue. The FFA is contradicting themselves, that isn't something where there are 3 sides about it. Either Stajic's own behavior was at issue, or it wasn't.Guest wrote:We will never know.Guest wrote:and then you get this article which directly calls out reid's accusations about parental concern at the asian cup. https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/swoop/...bac223473ce0425J.E. wrote:Really, none of the FFA's responses add up. In one of the earlier articles where the FFA director Heather Reid said she didn't want him out because he was a male, she also said this:Guest wrote:With every new bit of information leaking out it's becoming more and more clear they jumped the gun with firing him. At most an official warning and counselling, especially to the staff member caught using a homophobic remark against players. Plus the fact they initially misconstrued that the OurWatch survey was a main factor in all of this, when in reality only 3 players responded!!! Then the backtracking in the press con to say it wasn't just the survey results taken into account while at the same time insisting they can't say what the reasons are due to confidentiality. If they weren't happy with his tactics or whatever other reason why must that remain confidential? Nothing from the FFA side adds up.
Also if Gallop allegedly lying to the press when asked if any players asked for him to reinstate Staj isn't shady af idk what is...
I feel so bad for the players, especially the ones whose words were used against them in a moment of bravery and trust when they spoke up about the problems in the camp.
"It's a pity that there aren't more parents and players prepared to speak up about some of his behaviour," Reid said. "If people knew the actual facts, they would be shocked. I can refer you to some people who were involved with the Green and Gold Army who were in Jordan for the Asian Cup and talked to parents and heard their concerns about the welfare of their daughters. And talk to players about their situation in the team."
Which doesn't at all line-up with the whole player's survey narrative being told and their statement that Stajic himself didn't do anything wrong. If she knew of actual misconduct then investigate it, and handle it properly. Its hard to believe them when they
(Also, Reid removed herself from the selection process due to the rumors, but said she wouldn't remove herself from voting on the new coach when the time came.)
"I also spoke to many parents of the players, had dinner with some, shared a drink with others and coffee too.
Stajcic's demeanour was never attacked by these level-headed parents.
Sure I heard conversations about why their daughters should be playing ahead of player X or his tactics but nothing more, it was typical game talk ?ó?Ç?ö a difference of opinion and nothing else."
"There are three sides to every story: your side, my side, and the truth. And no one is lying. Memories shared serve each differently. Robert Evans."
Also, if Reid heard about serious concerns at the Asian cup, those concerns should have been investigated by the FFA and in a timely manner. Which is not what happened here, according to the FFA and their player's survey story. So either the stuff from the Asian Cup isn't as bad as she is making it seem, or they failed to do their job months prior. The inconsistencies are internal, not a matter of different people's versions of the story.
whats this going to do to the team's morale and cohesiveness - just when this team is meant to peak in time for Matilda's first decent shot at the World Cup
as much as you'll try be a professional, its going to leave a bad aftertaste going into that tournament and the leadup - when all you should be doing is focusing on the game
when the mens game is a mess and other mens sport teams have their scandals - this was meant to be the best time for this team to step and get some real attention from the public and support going forward
its so BS
as much as you'll try be a professional, its going to leave a bad aftertaste going into that tournament and the leadup - when all you should be doing is focusing on the game
when the mens game is a mess and other mens sport teams have their scandals - this was meant to be the best time for this team to step and get some real attention from the public and support going forward
its so BS
I think they'll do their best and they're not gonna hold it against their new coach (and despite some of the rumors, there don't really seem to be issues between players), but that doesn't mean FFA didn't do them a great disservice in changing their coach with less than 6 months to go.' wrote:I think they'll be fine, as one of the players said they will try and prove a point
No matter how hard the players work, this definitely set back their chances at the WC. (Not to mention the bid for hosting.)
Can Reid be the homophobic one? This quote and the leak of players sleeping arrangements makes me wonder if she wasn't a fan of the lesbians sleeping with each other during camp and somehow influencing the young teens on the team. Maybe it's the FFA that wants to change the culture of the team. Make them more quiet when it comes to their sexuality. I don't want to think this is the case but none of this is making sense.Guest wrote:and then you get this article which directly calls out reid's accusations about parental concern at the asian cup. https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/swoop/...bac223473ce0425J.E. wrote:Really, none of the FFA's responses add up. In one of the earlier articles where the FFA director Heather Reid said she didn't want him out because he was a male, she also said this:Guest wrote:With every new bit of information leaking out it's becoming more and more clear they jumped the gun with firing him. At most an official warning and counselling, especially to the staff member caught using a homophobic remark against players. Plus the fact they initially misconstrued that the OurWatch survey was a main factor in all of this, when in reality only 3 players responded!!! Then the backtracking in the press con to say it wasn't just the survey results taken into account while at the same time insisting they can't say what the reasons are due to confidentiality. If they weren't happy with his tactics or whatever other reason why must that remain confidential? Nothing from the FFA side adds up.
Also if Gallop allegedly lying to the press when asked if any players asked for him to reinstate Staj isn't shady af idk what is...
I feel so bad for the players, especially the ones whose words were used against them in a moment of bravery and trust when they spoke up about the problems in the camp.
"It's a pity that there aren't more parents and players prepared to speak up about some of his behaviour," Reid said. "If people knew the actual facts, they would be shocked. I can refer you to some people who were involved with the Green and Gold Army who were in Jordan for the Asian Cup and talked to parents and heard their concerns about the welfare of their daughters. And talk to players about their situation in the team."
Which doesn't at all line-up with the whole player's survey narrative being told and their statement that Stajic himself didn't do anything wrong. If she knew of actual misconduct then investigate it, and handle it properly. Its hard to believe them when they
(Also, Reid removed herself from the selection process due to the rumors, but said she wouldn't remove herself from voting on the new coach when the time came.)
"I also spoke to many parents of the players, had dinner with some, shared a drink with others and coffee too.
Stajcic's demeanour was never attacked by these level-headed parents.
Sure I heard conversations about why their daughters should be playing ahead of player X or his tactics but nothing more, it was typical game talk ?ó?Ç?ö a difference of opinion and nothing else."
Iirc, the comment was made by someone on the coaching staffing, so not Reid.Guest wrote:Can Reid be the homophobic one? This quote and the leak of players sleeping arrangements makes me wonder if she wasn't a fan of the lesbians sleeping with each other during camp and somehow influencing the young teens on the team. Maybe it's the FFA that wants to change the culture of the team. Make them more quiet when it comes to their sexuality. I don't want to think this is the case but none of this is making sense.Guest wrote:and then you get this article which directly calls out reid's accusations about parental concern at the asian cup. https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/swoop/...bac223473ce0425J.E. wrote:Really, none of the FFA's responses add up. In one of the earlier articles where the FFA director Heather Reid said she didn't want him out because he was a male, she also said this:Guest wrote:With every new bit of information leaking out it's becoming more and more clear they jumped the gun with firing him. At most an official warning and counselling, especially to the staff member caught using a homophobic remark against players. Plus the fact they initially misconstrued that the OurWatch survey was a main factor in all of this, when in reality only 3 players responded!!! Then the backtracking in the press con to say it wasn't just the survey results taken into account while at the same time insisting they can't say what the reasons are due to confidentiality. If they weren't happy with his tactics or whatever other reason why must that remain confidential? Nothing from the FFA side adds up.
Also if Gallop allegedly lying to the press when asked if any players asked for him to reinstate Staj isn't shady af idk what is...
I feel so bad for the players, especially the ones whose words were used against them in a moment of bravery and trust when they spoke up about the problems in the camp.
"It's a pity that there aren't more parents and players prepared to speak up about some of his behaviour," Reid said. "If people knew the actual facts, they would be shocked. I can refer you to some people who were involved with the Green and Gold Army who were in Jordan for the Asian Cup and talked to parents and heard their concerns about the welfare of their daughters. And talk to players about their situation in the team."
Which doesn't at all line-up with the whole player's survey narrative being told and their statement that Stajic himself didn't do anything wrong. If she knew of actual misconduct then investigate it, and handle it properly. Its hard to believe them when they
(Also, Reid removed herself from the selection process due to the rumors, but said she wouldn't remove herself from voting on the new coach when the time came.)
"I also spoke to many parents of the players, had dinner with some, shared a drink with others and coffee too.
Stajcic's demeanour was never attacked by these level-headed parents.
Sure I heard conversations about why their daughters should be playing ahead of player X or his tactics but nothing more, it was typical game talk ?ó?Ç?ö a difference of opinion and nothing else."
I'm not saying the homophobic comment was said by her. I'm saying are we not sure the FFA has a problem with the players being so open with their sexuality. I know a lot of programs are ok with their players being gay but with the understanding that they keep it hush hush. I know this is a stretch and probably not the case but everything about this is bogus.
A former assistant coach of the Matildas has revealed he was not asked to take part in either of the two surveys that helped to bring down coach Alen Stajcic and send Australian soccer into one of its worst crises in years.
As the drama and speculation surrounding Stajcic's shock dumping continued to swirl yesterday, Nahuel Arrarte told The Australian of the devastating effect it has had on Stajcic and his family.
Football Federation Australia took the drastic action of dumping Stajcic, who had been in charge of the Matildas since 2014, on Saturday on the basis of an investigation following revelations in two surveys of players and staff ?ó?Ç?ö one conducted by Professional Footballers Australia and the other by Our Watch, an organisation that tackles abuse and violence against women.
Questions have since been raised about the validity of both surveys, especially the one conducted by Our Watch, following suggestions it was not password protected and could have been accessed by any number of people. However, Our Watch assured The Australian last night that their research was conducted by the strictest standards.
"All Our Watch research abides by the NHMRC National Statement on Ethical Conduct, under the guidance of Human Research and Ethics committees. Our Watch surveys are housed on a highly reputable platform utilised by hospitals, government and researchers and all data is password-protected and accessible only to authorised staff," they said in a statement.
While jumping to Stajcic's defence, Arrarte, who was involved with the Matildas for 18 months, said he was not part of the survey and was surprised to learn of the findings.
"Staj is a gentleman and has been a huge advocate for women's football for 20 years," Arrarte said. "Without him, the support for women's football would not be what it is now.
"He has always fought for the girls and helped them out immensely.
"I have been involved in the camps, training, matches and tours and I have never seen or heard of any issues.
"That's why this whole thing doesn't make sense. It makes me think that some of these things have been fabricated.
"As for the surveys, you would think as an integral part of the set-up I would have been asked to do it, but I was never asked."
It has been revealed that the Our Watch survey received 142 replies, but only three were from the Matildas and the suggestion is that most responses came from parents of some of the players, and staff and partners.
The FTBL.com.au website said some of the responses from the three replies included "trigger words" such as "toxic", "misogynistic" and "bullying" and "were later cited by the FFA".
Meanwhile, Arrarte said he had been in regular touch with Stajcic.
"This has devastated him and really had an effect on his wife and kids. It's shocking," Arrarte said."
There was so much innuendo flying around but no one was coming out and telling the truth.
"That's the part that is difficult to take. His character is being assassinated."
At least one Matilda has said she doesn't even remember seeing the survey.
Stajcic, who has remained silent since his dismissal on the advice of his legal team, took the Matildas to a record high world ranking of four in 2017. They are currently ranked six.
Under his reign they qualified for the finals of the Asian Cup in 2014 and 2018 and reached the quarter-finals of the World Cup in 2015 and also got to the quarter-finals at the Rio Olympics in 2016. They were on track to be one of the leading contenders at this year's World Cup in France.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/foot...aa7961249cdc834
tl:dr The assistant coach of the team for the last 18 months, who resigned in support of Staj, wasn't asked to take part in the PFA or OurWatch surveys
As the drama and speculation surrounding Stajcic's shock dumping continued to swirl yesterday, Nahuel Arrarte told The Australian of the devastating effect it has had on Stajcic and his family.
Football Federation Australia took the drastic action of dumping Stajcic, who had been in charge of the Matildas since 2014, on Saturday on the basis of an investigation following revelations in two surveys of players and staff ?ó?Ç?ö one conducted by Professional Footballers Australia and the other by Our Watch, an organisation that tackles abuse and violence against women.
Questions have since been raised about the validity of both surveys, especially the one conducted by Our Watch, following suggestions it was not password protected and could have been accessed by any number of people. However, Our Watch assured The Australian last night that their research was conducted by the strictest standards.
"All Our Watch research abides by the NHMRC National Statement on Ethical Conduct, under the guidance of Human Research and Ethics committees. Our Watch surveys are housed on a highly reputable platform utilised by hospitals, government and researchers and all data is password-protected and accessible only to authorised staff," they said in a statement.
While jumping to Stajcic's defence, Arrarte, who was involved with the Matildas for 18 months, said he was not part of the survey and was surprised to learn of the findings.
"Staj is a gentleman and has been a huge advocate for women's football for 20 years," Arrarte said. "Without him, the support for women's football would not be what it is now.
"He has always fought for the girls and helped them out immensely.
"I have been involved in the camps, training, matches and tours and I have never seen or heard of any issues.
"That's why this whole thing doesn't make sense. It makes me think that some of these things have been fabricated.
"As for the surveys, you would think as an integral part of the set-up I would have been asked to do it, but I was never asked."
It has been revealed that the Our Watch survey received 142 replies, but only three were from the Matildas and the suggestion is that most responses came from parents of some of the players, and staff and partners.
The FTBL.com.au website said some of the responses from the three replies included "trigger words" such as "toxic", "misogynistic" and "bullying" and "were later cited by the FFA".
Meanwhile, Arrarte said he had been in regular touch with Stajcic.
"This has devastated him and really had an effect on his wife and kids. It's shocking," Arrarte said."
There was so much innuendo flying around but no one was coming out and telling the truth.
"That's the part that is difficult to take. His character is being assassinated."
At least one Matilda has said she doesn't even remember seeing the survey.
Stajcic, who has remained silent since his dismissal on the advice of his legal team, took the Matildas to a record high world ranking of four in 2017. They are currently ranked six.
Under his reign they qualified for the finals of the Asian Cup in 2014 and 2018 and reached the quarter-finals of the World Cup in 2015 and also got to the quarter-finals at the Rio Olympics in 2016. They were on track to be one of the leading contenders at this year's World Cup in France.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/foot...aa7961249cdc834
tl:dr The assistant coach of the team for the last 18 months, who resigned in support of Staj, wasn't asked to take part in the PFA or OurWatch surveys
FFA really f'ed up in my opinion. This seems to be character assassination and Staj will sue and win but damage has been done. Awful for everyone involved. Only 3 Matilda's took part in the survey? Am I reading that right!? Who are the other 140 or so people being surveyed and what do they have to do with the team? Makes absolutely no sense. Parents should not be surveyed unless the players are underage either it's a bunch of bs. Also, what kind of answers are you expecting from parents of young players in professional sports. Of course they are going to say it's a stressful environment and such.
If the FFA could admit their mistakes and reinstate Staj they should but I feel ego would never allow that to happen and relationships have already been damaged. I don't know if Staj would even come back if asked.
If the FFA could admit their mistakes and reinstate Staj they should but I feel ego would never allow that to happen and relationships have already been damaged. I don't know if Staj would even come back if asked.
yeah they've def fucked it. the misleading facts from the ffa that keep changing. 1st it was the results of the surveys, then it wasn't just the surveys but other reasons but they refuse to elaborate. the majority of senior players speaking out in shock and disappointment. hearing that there was a lot of crying when the players were together from a player that was there herself (seriously if your shit boss gets fired you're celebrating not shocked, disappointed, crying etc..). now it coming out that important staff and players barely even took part in the surveys that were initially used as blame.Guest wrote:FFA really f'ed up in my opinion. This seems to be character assassination and Staj will sue and win but damage has been done. Awful for everyone involved. Only 3 Matilda's took part in the survey? Am I reading that right!? Who are the other 140 or so people being surveyed and what do they have to do with the team? Makes absolutely no sense. Parents should not be surveyed unless the players are underage either it's a bunch of bs. Also, what kind of answers are you expecting from parents of young players in professional sports. Of course they are going to say it's a stressful environment and such.
If the FFA could admit their mistakes and reinstate Staj they should but I feel ego would never allow that to happen and relationships have already been damaged. I don't know if Staj would even come back if asked.
the opinions of anyone except players and staff should've been taken with a grain of salt. now the careers of the adults on the team have been forced into major upheaval because biased parents decided to complain about their teenager being under too much stress. if it was that bad for their kids and they were that concerned they should have removed them from the team immediately and formally complained themselves instead of waiting for an anonymous survey to randomly happen.
like you say the right thing would be to reinstate him but if i was staj i'd have no trust or confidence in the ffa anymore. the new coach will have a massive job to try and pull this group together before june. bye bye france hopes. and bye bye to any hopes of the 2023 bid too after this. feel sorry for all the people who've been putting in effort for that the last ~6 months because it was hardwork down the drain.
It doesn't really add up. Stajic was the first coach to not let couples room together (allegedly) so if that was Reid's issue then you think she would like Stajic. Also, if the FFA has a problem with it (which I don't think they do, I think they were just looking for hot topic words to throw around), then the FFA can take care of that. A lot of how open players are has to do with how the federation feels, not the coach. If FFA told the players to stay more low key on social media, they probably would.Guest wrote:I'm not saying the homophobic comment was said by her. I'm saying are we not sure the FFA has a problem with the players being so open with their sexuality. I know a lot of programs are ok with their players being gay but with the understanding that they keep it hush hush. I know this is a stretch and probably not the case but everything about this is bogus.
It seems a bit odd that parents and partners were asked to participate in the survey. I can't imagine that happening in normal workplace surveys. I can't imagine what my mom would say about some of my former bosses...Guest wrote:A former assistant coach of the Matildas has revealed he was not asked to take part in either of the two surveys that helped to bring down coach Alen Stajcic and send Australian soccer into one of its worst crises in years.
As the drama and speculation surrounding Stajcic's shock dumping continued to swirl yesterday, Nahuel Arrarte told The Australian of the devastating effect it has had on Stajcic and his family.
Football Federation Australia took the drastic action of dumping Stajcic, who had been in charge of the Matildas since 2014, on Saturday on the basis of an investigation following revelations in two surveys of players and staff ?ó?Ç?ö one conducted by Professional Footballers Australia and the other by Our Watch, an organisation that tackles abuse and violence against women.
Questions have since been raised about the validity of both surveys, especially the one conducted by Our Watch, following suggestions it was not password protected and could have been accessed by any number of people. However, Our Watch assured The Australian last night that their research was conducted by the strictest standards.
"All Our Watch research abides by the NHMRC National Statement on Ethical Conduct, under the guidance of Human Research and Ethics committees. Our Watch surveys are housed on a highly reputable platform utilised by hospitals, government and researchers and all data is password-protected and accessible only to authorised staff," they said in a statement.
While jumping to Stajcic's defence, Arrarte, who was involved with the Matildas for 18 months, said he was not part of the survey and was surprised to learn of the findings.
"Staj is a gentleman and has been a huge advocate for women's football for 20 years," Arrarte said. "Without him, the support for women's football would not be what it is now.
"He has always fought for the girls and helped them out immensely.
"I have been involved in the camps, training, matches and tours and I have never seen or heard of any issues.
"That's why this whole thing doesn't make sense. It makes me think that some of these things have been fabricated.
"As for the surveys, you would think as an integral part of the set-up I would have been asked to do it, but I was never asked."
It has been revealed that the Our Watch survey received 142 replies, but only three were from the Matildas and the suggestion is that most responses came from parents of some of the players, and staff and partners.
The FTBL.com.au website said some of the responses from the three replies included "trigger words" such as "toxic", "misogynistic" and "bullying" and "were later cited by the FFA".
Meanwhile, Arrarte said he had been in regular touch with Stajcic.
"This has devastated him and really had an effect on his wife and kids. It's shocking," Arrarte said."
There was so much innuendo flying around but no one was coming out and telling the truth.
"That's the part that is difficult to take. His character is being assassinated."
At least one Matilda has said she doesn't even remember seeing the survey.
Stajcic, who has remained silent since his dismissal on the advice of his legal team, took the Matildas to a record high world ranking of four in 2017. They are currently ranked six.
Under his reign they qualified for the finals of the Asian Cup in 2014 and 2018 and reached the quarter-finals of the World Cup in 2015 and also got to the quarter-finals at the Rio Olympics in 2016. They were on track to be one of the leading contenders at this year's World Cup in France.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/foot...aa7961249cdc834
tl:dr The assistant coach of the team for the last 18 months, who resigned in support of Staj, wasn't asked to take part in the PFA or OurWatch surveys
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